{"id":234,"date":"2011-11-30T18:06:19","date_gmt":"2011-11-30T18:06:19","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=234"},"modified":"2011-12-01T19:15:11","modified_gmt":"2011-12-01T19:15:11","slug":"var-_gaq-_gaq-_gaq-push_setaccount-ua-25646250-2-_gaq-push_trackpageview-function-var-ga-document-createelementscript-ga-type-textjava-5","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=234","title":{"rendered":"<script type=\"text\/javascript\">    var _gaq = _gaq || [];   _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-25646250-2']);   _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']);    (function() {     var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text\/javascript'; ga.async = true;     ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? 'https:\/\/ssl' : 'http:\/\/www') + '.google-analytics.com\/ga.js';     var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s);   })();  <\/script>  <\/heat> Session Eight &#8211; The Expulsion from Eden &#8211; Part II &#8211; Held on Sunday, November 13, 2011"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>Introduction<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Since a number of members were new to this session, we decided to reread the Story of the Expulsion at \u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/bible\/genesis\/3\">http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/bible\/genesis\/3<\/a>.\u00a0 As I mentioned in our last session, reading the notes can be a major aid in our study of the meaning of God\u2019s word.<\/p>\n<p>As always we are lead by four questions that can prompt our understanding. As you read pay attention to your self, what stands out in the story for you, raises questions, or raises feelings inside of you.<\/p>\n<ol start=\"1\">\n<li>Who are the characters in the story \u2013 list them<\/li>\n<li>What is the time of the story<\/li>\n<li>What is the plot of this story<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><strong>Who are the characters?<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Our group quickly listed seven characters but in listing them we discovered the difficulty and discipline required to stick with the story.\u00a0 We ended up discussing these characters for quite a while.<\/p>\n<p>A revealing discussion occurred around two characters, the \u201cman and woman.\u201d\u00a0 We might think Adam and Eve. But throughout the Hebrew word is translated \u201cman\u201d not \u201cAdam.\u201d If you read the notes, you will see that the naming of the woman, Eve, doesn\u2019t occur until the very end of the story.\u00a0 Complicating matters was the fact that one of our members had a version of the Bible in which Adam was referred to throughout the story.<\/p>\n<p>A point of clarification, the Hebrew word for \u201cman\u201d and for \u201cAdam\u201d is the same word.\u00a0 It is the context that helps the translator select.\u00a0 Perhaps it is obvious to you that \u201cman\u201d refers to man in general whereas \u201cAdam\u201d refers to an individual man.\u00a0 Does this distinction mean anything to you?\u00a0 You might also see why it is a great advantage to study scriptures in a group. You won\u2019t all think a like, I can assure you that.\u00a0 If you respond to this electronically, you can begin to form a group online, even if you are in the comfort of your home.<\/p>\n<p>Our discussion on \u201cman and woman\u201d prompted Mark to ask a seemingly innocent question, who married them and then the whole idea of marriage I thought was later in the church anyway. Before we attempted to discuss his question though, I pointed out that Mark\u2019s question, itself, might assume among other things that the time of the story is historical time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>The Time of the Story \u2013 Science, Culture and Religion<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>What do you think is the time of the story?\u00a0 There is no mention of time in the story of the Expulsion.\u00a0 We rightly assume, again from the context, that the author means \u201cin the beginning.\u201d\u00a0 I can\u2019t tell you how much discussion swirled around those three words.\u00a0 \u00a0You are welcome to join in. We are caught now [in our present time] with very real differences of opinion that have far reaching implications and points to the very goal of this website, Rise to the Level of our Times.<\/p>\n<p>Dan made clear the meaning of this text to him and many others who agree with him.\u00a0 He asked, are we going on the assumption that God is not the author [of the Bible] and that we trust that the scientists are right with the 4.6 billion years when there are creation scientists that have all kind of evidence that prove a lot much younger world.\u00a0 We\u2019re doubting God and we\u2019re going to trust the world.\u00a0 To study that evidence you can go to <a href=\"http:\/\/www.creationevidence.org\/\">www.creationevidence.org<\/a>.\u00a0 Later in the discussion Dan said, basically I come from that God wrote the Bible and you take the genealogies from Jesus \u2026 it went from Mary straight back to Adam \u2026 and everything the Bible says is true.<\/p>\n<p>For me the challenge is to identify what is true and false on each side of apparently contradictory positions. \u00a0This is the meaning of \u201cRise to the Level of our Times.\u201d\u00a0 First let\u2019s attempt to identify where the differences really lie.\u00a0 I would invite you again to join in the discussion.<\/p>\n<p>On the side of scientists, I would argue that it is not with their science, nor is it with all scientists.\u00a0 Science by definition is empirical, theoretical, methodical.\u00a0 Scientists, however, suffer from the same biases, etc. that the rest of us do and their biases are quite powerful and culturally influential when they are presented as science.\u00a0 So the best opinion for the date of the earth is scientific, that is 4.3 billion years old.\u00a0 But in stating their scientific conclusions they may even unwittingly include a number of extra scientific opinions. In my opinion the conflict with science lies in the extra scientific statements of scientists.\u00a0 To go into what those extras scientific opinions are is for another time. If you&#8217;re interested, let me know.<\/p>\n<p>On the side of religion I would begin by stating that the Bible is written by persons who believe, to people who believe in order to aid their believing.\u00a0 The Bible, in the main, is historical only in the sense that it was written at particular times and places and what is written reveals those particular times and places to the extent that we can determine them.\u00a0 Secondly, the notion of revelation is an extraordinarily complex one but it rests on the belief that God has directly entered into the very meaning of this world for us. \u00a0And for me, that meaning is everything. \u00a0So to deduce from the lineage recorded in the Bible the age of the universe is to deduce from the Bible what isn\u2019t intended in the Bible.\u00a0 Or to attempt to make sense of a day, or a week, or a year, as meaning something other than a day, a week, or a year is to miss the meaning of the text.<\/p>\n<p>Creation scientists claim, as stated on their website, that \u201cOur creation model begins, not with the space-time dimension, but with the Creator Himself.\u201d The only\u00a0beginning that we can ever have in this life is rooted in space and time.\u00a0 In Catholic intellectual tradition, even to name God as Creator is on the assumption that there is a creation. \u00a0God is not a datum in creation to be understood but the explanation of all the data of creation. Only the mystic approaches the Creator Himself, for the rest of us, we must wait for the next life. Nonetheless, I agree with Dan that as Christians we must choose between being Americans who happen to go to church on Sundays or being Christians who happen to have been born in theUnited States.\u00a0 Christophe Dawson expressed this more fully than I <a href=\"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=237\">http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=237<\/a>\u00a0. \u00a0It is much easier to be an American first than to be a Christian first. \u00a0Much more can and has been written but allow this to be a starter.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Some Observations from our members<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Our group had much more to say and I would be remiss if I didn\u2019t mention at least some.<\/p>\n<p>Ken had a couple of meaningful observations:\u00a0 Well what I hear is the difficulty that we have is trying to inject what our life experiences and how we know our life to be in our current time \u2026 to inject that into the story and possibly make assumptions based on what we hear and know today.\u00a0 Later he remarked I think that we\u2019re so caught up sometimes in the world of absolutes that we\u2019re trying to pin things down into a black or white, a yes or no, good and evil<\/p>\n<p>Carol showed from her own experience the importance of simply talking with one another to learn what in fact we believe.<\/p>\n<p>Tim mentioned something personal to him that I think we could all identify with.\u00a0 \u2026 There\u2019s also moments even in my own life where something bad has happened \u2026 [to which he concluded] \u2026 it\u2019s been better for me that the bad thing happened.<\/p>\n<p>Mike ended our discussion with this comment: in the times of these writings very select people were educated.\u00a0 And then eating of the tree of knowledge was a bad thing.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know that there\u2019s not something written in that message that \u2026 light years beyond \u2026 I should say in reverse of where we are now \u2026 where everyone can be educated.\u00a0 Everyone can write.\u00a0 Everyone can tell how they feel and how they think.\u00a0 I think part of that is part of the problem of today\u2019s world.\u00a0 There are too many people who think they know stuff or pretend to know stuff and people follow them.<\/p>\n<p>As always your opinions, comments, questions are welcomed.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Introduction Since a number of members were new to this session, we decided to reread the Story of the Expulsion at \u00a0http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/bible\/genesis\/3.\u00a0 As I mentioned in our last session, reading the notes can be a major aid in our study &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=234\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-234","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/234","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=234"}],"version-history":[{"count":8,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/234\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":242,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/234\/revisions\/242"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=234"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=234"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=234"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}