{"id":381,"date":"2012-02-22T21:37:26","date_gmt":"2012-02-22T21:37:26","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=381"},"modified":"2012-02-22T21:37:26","modified_gmt":"2012-02-22T21:37:26","slug":"var-_gaq-_gaq-_gaq-push_setaccount-ua-25646250-2-_gaq-push_trackpageview-function-var-ga-document-createelementscript-ga-type-textjava-24","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=381","title":{"rendered":"<script type=\"text\/javascript\">    var _gaq = _gaq || [];   _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-25646250-2']);   _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']);    (function() {     var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text\/javascript'; ga.async = true;     ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? 'https:\/\/ssl' : 'http:\/\/www') + '.google-analytics.com\/ga.js';     var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s);   })();  <\/script>  <\/heat> Session 18 Part I \u2013 Held on Sunday, Feb. 19, 2012"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong>Changes in life, changes in our Church<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>As the heading indicates our group continued but broadened their discussion of the changes in our church.\u00a0 The discussion was lively and included such topics as the changes instituted by Vatican II, nuns changing their habits, providing ministries other than teaching in the Catholic schools; priests not saying the rosary, and women priests; topics that bubble up just under the surface for many Catholics.<\/p>\n<p>As a result of this conversation I would offer two points that might serve as a way to frame our conversations.\u00a0 The first deals with that fact that we are inescapably part of our times.\u00a0 If we listen to the words we use, we often can detect those times.\u00a0 For example before the session got started Rosemarie mentioned her interest in purchasing an iPad.\u00a0 Now we know or can know the iPad is an Apple product that didn\u2019t exist just a few short years ago. What is true of the word \u201ciPad\u201d is true of all words.\u00a0 They have a beginning even though we may not always be able to date them.\u00a0 Scripture scholars attempt to use the words in the Bible to help date the time of the writing.\u00a0 It should be clear that their time and our time are not the same time. It&#8217;s critical to recognize this fact in its detail; often it is the notes covering our reading that do just that.<\/p>\n<p>A second observation stems from the fact that whenever we talk we frequently use two quite distinct types of statements; statements of facts and statements of value.\u00a0 An example of these two types of statements was provided by Don.\u00a0 See if you can detect the differences in two statements I selected from his take on the recent changes in our liturgy.\u00a0 At one point he said, \u201c\u2026 It seemed like when they first changed from the Latin to the English they used some of these same words that they\u2019re changing back to.\u201d\u00a0 A little later he added, \u201cI don\u2019t know they\u2019re making a big deal of it [the changes in the liturgy] but it\u2019s where it\u2019s suppose to be \u2026\u201d<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s one thing to ask whether the specific words that were used in the first effort to translate the liturgy from Latin to English are the same words that the liturgy is now using.\u00a0 That question is a matter of fact.\u00a0 We can have only one of three possible responses; yes with or without qualifications, no with or without qualifications, or I don\u2019t know.\u00a0 But it is quite another matter to discuss whether the changes are \u201cwhere it\u2019s suppose to be.\u201d\u00a0 Some people may consider that an evaluative statement and then the range of response are much different.\u00a0 I\u2019m wondering if this distinction which means a lot to me, actually makes sense to you.\u00a0 For me Don&#8217;s &#8220;where it&#8217;s suppose to be&#8230;&#8221; is basically agreeing with the changes.\u00a0 But not every one agrees with the changes and their disagreement can be based on a disagreement on facts but it also might be because they disagree about the values expressed in the change.\u00a0 What\u2019s your take on this?<\/p>\n<p>To conclude I thought I would simply share some of the back and forth that actually occurred among the group members.<\/p>\n<p>At first in response to the issue of the male dominated culture of the times in which the Bible was written, members talked about how women are 2<sup>nd<\/sup> class citizens with examples from Italy today, from the Middle East [Islamic countries], China, andJapan.\u00a0 I asked them what I think is the tougher question, are there examples at the local and even personal level.<\/p>\n<p>Tim expressed his opinion that in not permitting women to be priests our church is not keeping up with the times which recognize the equality between men and women.\u00a0 Rosemarie didn\u2019t agree.\u00a0 For her the male priesthood is part of the identity of the Catholic Church.\u00a0 She reflected that Jesus instituted the Eucharist on Holy Saturday with the apostles who were all men.\u00a0 Tim wondered if that wasn\u2019t just a cultural value and not a religious value.\u00a0 Rebecca responded by pointing out that there weren\u2019t any black apostles or Asian apostles at the Last Supper.\u00a0 She wondered aloud why ethnicity is not an issue for our church but sex is?\u00a0 She then thought maybe she should not be in this group.\u00a0 Mark responded that he too struggles with some teachings, found the group \u201ctherapeutic\u201d and hoped that Rebecca would come back.\u00a0 Rosemarie remarked that most of us have something we don\u2019t agree with.\u00a0 There were many other participants \u2013 in fact the group started to laugh every time [maybe six times] I attempted to stop the conversation.\u00a0 But it mattered to the folks and that mattered to me.<\/p>\n<p>These exchanges might give you a flavor for the conversation. We find them rich, respectful and want more not less of them.\u00a0 What would be your opinion?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Changes in life, changes in our Church As the heading indicates our group continued but broadened their discussion of the changes in our church.\u00a0 The discussion was lively and included such topics as the changes instituted by Vatican II, nuns &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=381\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[17,10,5],"tags":[16,15,7],"class_list":["post-381","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-change-in-the-catholic-church","category-culture","category-scripture","tag-catholic-liturgical-changes","tag-historical-method","tag-modern-scripture-scholarship"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/381","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=381"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/381\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":383,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/381\/revisions\/383"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=381"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=381"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=381"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}