{"id":756,"date":"2013-02-22T12:18:13","date_gmt":"2013-02-22T16:18:13","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=756"},"modified":"2013-02-24T09:34:27","modified_gmt":"2013-02-24T13:34:27","slug":"var-_gaq-_gaq-_gaq-push_setaccount-ua-25646250-2-_gaq-push_trackpageview-function-var-ga-document-createelementscript-ga-type-textjavascript-ga-24","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=756","title":{"rendered":"<script type=\"text\/javascript\">  var _gaq = _gaq || []; _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-25646250-2']); _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']);  (function() { var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text\/javascript'; ga.async = true; ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? 'https:\/\/ssl' : 'http:\/\/www') + '.google-analytics.com\/ga.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s); })();  <\/script>  <\/heat> Abraham\u2019s Sons by Keturah and the Death of Abraham &#8211; Held on Sunday, February 17, 2013"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><b>Personal Note on Posting Timeline<\/b><\/p>\n<p>I will be posting by Friday of each week the session from the previous Sunday through Good Friday.\u00a0 Then we will take a week break so there will not be a post on the week following Easter Sunday, March 31st.<\/p>\n<p><b>Gen. 25: 01 \u2013 06: Abraham\u2019s Sons by Keturah and Gen. 25: 07 \u2013 11: The Death of Abraham<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Background<\/b><\/p>\n<p>Most of the first half hour of our session was devoted to introductions and updating two new members who joined us for the first time, Jean and Joan.\u00a0 We devoted the next forty five minutes to our first passage dealing with the Abraham\u2019s sons born by Keturah and the final 15 minutes on the Death of Abraham.<\/p>\n<p>I will bring out some of the background to the passages as part of the discussion which frankly went all over the place; from Adam and Eve to the Palestinian Conflict.\u00a0 If anything, the conversation revealed how very difficult it is to stay focused on the passage at hand; a discipline I strongly urge of any reading.<\/p>\n<p>Before we read the passage though I continue to offer <b>Our Questions<\/b> and <b>My Refrain<\/b>. \u00a0If these two points are quite familiar to you, skip to the reading itself.<\/p>\n<p><b>Our Questions<\/b><\/p>\n<p>For the sake of completeness I will include in our blog the basic questions that guide us in hearing the passages we study each week.<\/p>\n<ol start=\"1\">\n<li>First who are the characters and what role does each play? To the extent that we can identify<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<ul>\n<li>what the characters say and do, or<\/li>\n<li>don\u2019t say and do but we would expect them to do so, and<\/li>\n<li>finally when they enter into the passage and leave it<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>We can more easily and more accurately know what their role is from the point of view of the author and \/ or the editor of the passage.<\/p>\n<ol start=\"2\">\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d question is quite complicated and again for the sake of completeness; there is<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<ul>\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d within the story \/ passage itself,<\/li>\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d of the editor, and most importantly,<\/li>\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d of our life at the time we are actually reading \/ studying the passage.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ol start=\"3\">\n<li>What is the plot, the point of the passage?<\/li>\n<li>Finally, because each passage is at one and the same time the word of human beings and the Word of God, there is revealed the values that are part and parcel of the human beings in their time and place and there is the values revealed by God for the believer.\u00a0 Our final question is to discern which values in the passage are attractive to us, we are drawn to and which are we repulsed by, inclined to reject?\u00a0 The more difficult task, if we do identify these two responses in us of the values revealed, which are of God and we are being challenged to embrace and which are not of God and we are being challenged to correct and develop.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><b>My Refrain<\/b><\/p>\n<p>Before we read though, let&#8217;s quiet ourselves, remember whatever we can from the background, our questions and, most importantly, pay attention to what happens inside of us as we read.<\/p>\n<p><b>Reading of the passage\u00a0<\/b><b><span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/bible\/genesis\/25\">http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/bible\/genesis\/25<\/a><\/span><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Discussion Gen. 25: 01 \u2013 06: \u00a0Abraham\u2019s Sons by Keturah.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>Carol began our discussion with a very astute observation.\u00a0 She noticed that in verse 3 the author addresses the third generation of children not as individuals but as a group or tribe.\u00a0 This she concluded to because the author prefaces each of their names with the indefinite article \u201cthe.\u201d\u00a0 Carol\u2019s observation is clear evidence that our author was not thinking of individual children; his was a larger picture to be conveyed.\u00a0 Further the simple \u201cthe\u201d raises a question inside of us and it is that question, almost as much as the answer that is important.\u00a0 I will leave the reader, you, to wonder what the question, not the answer, but the question means?<\/p>\n<p>Rosemarie wondered what \u201cGrants\u201d in verse 6, also translated \u201cgifts\u201d meant.\u00a0 Obviously our author doesn\u2019t give us any details to help us identify what the \u201cgrants\u201d or \u201cgifts\u201d were.\u00a0 We can guess though, maybe camels, tents, basic necessities for life at that time.\u00a0 But we don\u2019t know and the bible doesn\u2019t tell us.<\/p>\n<p>Jean pointed out in verse 5 we learn that Abraham gave \u201ceverything\u201d to Isaac and in verse 6 he sent all of his \u201cother sons\u201d eastward.\u00a0 Of course, in our logical Western mind we might think well he\u00a0didn&#8217;t\u00a0give \u201ceverything\u201d to Isaac since he did give the other sons something.\u00a0 Again it is obvious that our author simply\u00a0doesn&#8217;t\u00a0think like we do.\u00a0 But Isaac matters in this passage.\u00a0 Not only does Abraham give him \u201ceverything\u201d but by the end of the passage we learn that Abraham in sending the other sons eastward is intending to keep them away from Isaac.\u00a0 What is the author telling us about Abraham\u2019s concern for Isaac?<\/p>\n<p>For myself the concubine, Keturah, came out of the blue.\u00a0 We might think, given the sequence in the story that Abraham married Keturah after Sarah had died.\u00a0 But we really don\u2019t know that.\u00a0 Further, it\u2019s not clear whether the author thinks of Keturah as a wife [see verse 1 \u201ctook her as his wife\u201d], or as a concubine [see verse 6 \u201cTo the sons of his concubines (note the plural)].<\/p>\n<p>Noting Abraham&#8217;s concubines led us to recall the story of Hagar and Ishmael and Sarah\u2019s relationship with Hagar and Abraham\u2019s relationship with Ishmael.\u00a0 This prompted Joan to share her understanding of this conflict and its impact on the Muslims today, their treatment of women, and the modern day Palestinian conflict.\u00a0 Joan\u2019s thoughts allowed us to focus on the disparate historical times that these observations blur.\u00a0 We have the time of the story, perhaps the 13<sup>th<\/sup> century BC; the time of the editor of the passage, perhaps 6<sup>th<\/sup> century BC; the birth of Islam in the 7<sup>th<\/sup> century AD; and, of course the birth of the modern Palestinian conflict in the 20<sup>th<\/sup> century.\u00a0 Give or take 33oo years.\u00a0 We can hold all of that in our mind but we have to be clear that is what we are doing.\u00a0 To make connections between the enormous time differences requires a great deal of research and would probably result in quite varied accounts of those connections.\u00a0 It is easy to assume that bible tells us something that, at least in this one passage, simply isn\u2019t there.<\/p>\n<p>Jean reminded us that the bible is inspired by THE Holy Spirit.\u00a0 Heber remarked that all of the leaders [males] seemed to have more than one wife, concubine.\u00a0 These two somewhat disparate remarks allowed me to raise a question concerning inspiration.\u00a0 Inspiration is a complex concept.\u00a0 Yes we do believe that scriptures are inspired by the Holy Spirit.\u00a0 But what does that mean? \u00a0When the authors tell us the various males having more than one wife, what is inspired about that?\u00a0 We can believe that the bible is inspired, be correct, but not know exactly what that belief means.<\/p>\n<p>I pointed out how far ranging our conversation had taken us and wanted to bring us back to the passage at hand.\u00a0 What is the purpose of this passage?\u00a0 I summarized a few points that had come out in our conversation:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>By the third generation we learned that the \u201cchildren\u2019s\u201d names were not of individuals but of groups, or tribes.<\/li>\n<li>We learned that Abraham had a special concern for Isaac giving him everything and sending the other sons eastward away from Isaac.<\/li>\n<li>We couldn\u2019t clearly know if Keturah was a wife or a concubine; nor could we determine the order of her \u201cmarriage\u201d to Abraham.<\/li>\n<li>Finally we realized that our conversations had roamed far and wide, that much of it had come out of our understanding of the storehouse of Catholic faith.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>We went on to read the second passage dealing with the death of Abraham which prompted another fifteen minutes or so of discussion.\u00a0 I leave the details of that for your wonderment.<\/p>\n<p>Your comments, observations, questions are welcomed.\u00a0 See \u201ccomment\u201d link below<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Personal Note on Posting Timeline I will be posting by Friday of each week the session from the previous Sunday through Good Friday.\u00a0 Then we will take a week break so there will not be a post on the week &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=756\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,8,5],"tags":[28,7,18,19],"class_list":["post-756","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-culture","category-literal-interpretation","category-scripture","tag-literal-interpretation","tag-modern-scripture-scholarship","tag-religion-and-culture","tag-scripture-study"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/756","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=756"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/756\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":760,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/756\/revisions\/760"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=756"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=756"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=756"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}