{"id":761,"date":"2013-03-01T12:24:43","date_gmt":"2013-03-01T16:24:43","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=761"},"modified":"2013-03-01T12:24:43","modified_gmt":"2013-03-01T16:24:43","slug":"var-_gaq-_gaq-_gaq-push_setaccount-ua-25646250-2-_gaq-push_trackpageview-function-var-ga-document-createelementscript-ga-type-textjavascript-ga-25","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=761","title":{"rendered":"<script type=\"text\/javascript\">  var _gaq = _gaq || []; _gaq.push(['_setAccount', 'UA-25646250-2']); _gaq.push(['_trackPageview']);  (function() { var ga = document.createElement('script'); ga.type = 'text\/javascript'; ga.async = true; ga.src = ('https:' == document.location.protocol ? 'https:\/\/ssl' : 'http:\/\/www') + '.google-analytics.com\/ga.js'; var s = document.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; s.parentNode.insertBefore(ga, s); })();  <\/script>  <\/heat> The Birth of Esau and Jacob &#8211; Held on Sunday, February 24, 2013"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><b>Personal Note on Posting Timeline<\/b><\/p>\n<p>I will be posting by Friday of each week the session from the previous Sunday through Good Friday.\u00a0 Then we will take a week break so there will not be a post on week following Easter Sunday<\/p>\n<p><b>Gen. 25: 19 \u2013 34: The Birth of Esau and Jacob<\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Background<\/b><\/p>\n<p>This passage is composed of three episodes:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>Vv. 19 \u2013 23: focuses on the prayer of the two parents, Isaac and Rebekah, and the Lord\u2019s response to both; presented in quite different manners.<\/li>\n<li>Vv. 24: &#8211; 26: an account of the birth revealing both the birth order, the names, the appearance of the two boys and a play on words that references a people, Edomites, at a later time in Israelite history.<\/li>\n<li>Vv. 27 \u2013 34: Esau\u2019s selling of his birth right for a meal; Jacob\u2019s less than honorable manner to obtain that birth right.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Our discussion on these three episodes was a back and forth of a series of questions that were raised mostly by myself but also from other participants.\u00a0 I intend to leave most of our answers unreported so that if you read the discussion, you can formulate your own response.\u00a0 If you should choose to report in the comment section what your responses are, that would allow further dialogue.<\/p>\n<p>I continue to offer a section on <strong>Our Questions<\/strong> and <strong>My Refrain<\/strong>, if these are quite familiar to you, skip to the reading and discussion section of the post.<\/p>\n<p><b>Our Questions<\/b><\/p>\n<ol start=\"1\">\n<li>First who are the characters and what role does each play? To the extent that we can identify<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<ul>\n<li>what the characters say and do, or<\/li>\n<li>don\u2019t say and do but we would expect them to do so, and<\/li>\n<li>finally when they enter into the passage and leave it<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>We can more easily and more accurately know what their role is from the point of view of the author and \/ or the editor of the passage.<\/p>\n<ol start=\"2\">\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d question is quite complicated and again for the sake of completeness; there is<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<ul>\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d within the story \/ passage itself,<\/li>\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d of the editor, and most importantly,<\/li>\n<li>The \u201cwhen\u201d of our life at the time we are actually reading \/ studying the passage.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<ol start=\"3\">\n<li>What is the plot, the point of the passage?<\/li>\n<li>Finally, because each passage is at one and the same time the word of human beings and the Word of God, there is revealed the values that are part and parcel of the human beings in their time and place and there is the values revealed by God for the believer.\u00a0 Our final question is to discern which values in the passage are attractive to us, we are drawn to and which are we repulsed by, inclined to reject?\u00a0 The more difficult task, if we do identify these two responses in us of the values revealed, which are of God and we are being challenged to embrace and which are not of God and we are being challenged to correct and develop.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p><b>My Refrain<\/b><\/p>\n<p>Before we read though, let&#8217;s quiet ourselves, remember whatever we can from the background, our questions and, most importantly, pay attention to what happens inside of us as we read.<\/p>\n<p><b>Reading of the passage\u00a0<\/b><a href=\"http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/bible\/genesis\/25\"><b>http:\/\/www.usccb.org\/bible\/genesis\/25<\/b><\/a><b><\/b><\/p>\n<p><b>Discussion Gen. 25: 09 \u2013 23: \u00a0The Prayers of Isaac and Rebekah and the Lord\u2019s response.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>We quickly identified the characters in the passage; Isaac, Rebekah, the Lord and a reference to the two boys in the womb.\u00a0 We learn that Isaac is 40 years old, Rebekah is sterile [can also be translated barren. Sterile infers that Rebekah cannot have children while barren doesn\u2019t carry that same inference, at least, as strongly.]<\/p>\n<p>Isaac prays and God responds.\u00a0 Rebekah becomes pregnant.\u00a0 Keep in mind that the passage without much emphasis, as a mere matter of fact, reports that Isaac was 60 when Rebekah became pregnant. God takes his good old time to respond, 20 years.\u00a0 If you\u2019ve lived long enough, you might be able to look back 20 years to see how, in fact, later events can be understood as an answer to an issue that began 20 or more years ago.<\/p>\n<p>We learn that the pregnancy has not been easy for Rebekah; painful might be the best description.\u00a0 Rebekah doesn\u2019t pray; she \u201cconsults.\u201d\u00a0 Scholars believe this infers that the praying took place at a place of prayer.\u00a0 God\u2019s response to Rebekah takes the form of a revelation which is to impact her and her understanding of things.\u00a0 It\u2019s important to note that no one else in the story knows what God has revealed to Rebekah, just her.<\/p>\n<p>These four lines are quite extraordinary.\u00a0 The two boys are identified with two nations; of course, the author and the author\u2019s audience knows who those two nations are: the Israelites and the Edomites.\u00a0 We learn as well that the birth order is going to be subverted.\u00a0 It\u2019s very difficult for this simple statement to resonate with us in the same that it must have for the characters in the story and how it actually resonated within Israelite history.\u00a0 This subversion of the birth order is the origin, or perhaps continuance, of the familial conflicts that are part and parcel of Israelite history.<\/p>\n<p>Carol pointed out the parallels between this story and the story of the birth of Isaac to Abraham and Sarah.\u00a0 How are the two stories similar?<\/p>\n<p><b>Discussion Gen. 25: 24 \u2013 26: \u00a0The Birth of the Esau and Jacob<\/b><\/p>\n<p>We learn in the reading of the birth order and the appearance of the two boys. \u00a0The words that describe Esau, ruddy and hairy, are a play on words that refers to the Edomites.\u00a0 It is in the notes that we learn about this word play.\u00a0 Without the work of scholars we simply would not know because the word play occurs only in the original language.\u00a0 This evidence for me that scholarship can help us to appreciate more fully the bible and that most of us are in the position to believe the scholars.\u00a0 Unfortunately, scholarship can very and, it is not uncommon for scholarship to simply reinforce a given horizon of understanding of the reader.<\/p>\n<p><b>Discussion Gen. 25: 27 \u2013 34: \u00a0Esau Exchanges his Birthright for a Meal.<\/b><\/p>\n<p>The life style of the two boys is consistent with the description of at birth.\u00a0 It is life styles that conflict; not much different than how rural and urban Americans experience life quite differently, view life differently, and such differences are in conflict.<\/p>\n<p>As you read this part of the story, what is your evaluation of the behavior of the two boys?\u00a0 Which, in your opinion, has acted in an upright manner?\u00a0 As we mulled over this question, we realized first of all that birthright was a much more significant part of the culture of the story than it is in our lives, even though we too experience the impact of birth order in our family lives.<\/p>\n<p>Does Esau\u2019s reason for selling his birth right, he was very hungry, not present him as a bit of a dunce.\u00a0 Isn\u2019t Jacob taking advantage of Esau also an act that doesn\u2019t seem very upright to us?\u00a0 Yet God select Jacob to be the individual through whom He intends to fulfill his promise.\u00a0 We pick people because we think they are good or, at least, better.\u00a0 In fact, it they fail, we are disappointed.\u00a0 God does pick by the same standard.\u00a0 He picks them because He is God not because his choice is good.<\/p>\n<p>Cathy wondered how Jacob could want the birth right unless Rebekah had shared God\u2019s revelation with him.\u00a0 What\u2019s your thought on this question?<\/p>\n<p>Ken wanted to know if the Edomites were one of the tribes of Israel.\u00a0 They were not, in fact, the nations warred against one another.<\/p>\n<p>I raised a question that pretty much was being discussed until time ran out.\u00a0 In the revelations that the Lord made to Rebekah, does it mean that because the Lord said it, therefore it HAD to happen.<\/p>\n<p>Ken wanted some clarification.\u00a0 He wondered if there were any stories in the bible that tell us that what God intended to happen, didn\u2019t.\u00a0 Although he though he didn\u2019t know, he actually did.\u00a0 I asked him if God intended in the story of Adam and Eve for the story to turn out as it did.\u00a0 Of course, this brought up the issue of predestination.<\/p>\n<p>Michael took the passage as simply a prediction from God and not that it meant that it HAD to happen.\u00a0 Don responded that he thought it HAD to happen since God knew what was going to take place.<\/p>\n<p>At this point in the conversation, I pointed out that Don had brought up for the first time the question of God\u2019s knowledge and its relationship to what happens.\u00a0 Michael hadn\u2019t done that but it doesn\u2019t mean that Michael didn\u2019t think it.\u00a0 Michael simply didn\u2019t say it.\u00a0 So what is your opinion, if God knows everything, does that mean that everything that God knows HAS to happen?\u00a0 A hint is contained in my emphasis on the word HAS to or HAD to happen.\u00a0 What\u2019s your opinion and more importantly why?\u00a0 Is Don correct?\u00a0 Is Michael correct?\u00a0 Is there a third choice?<\/p>\n<p>Your comments, observations, questions are welcomed.\u00a0 See \u201ccomment\u201d link below<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Personal Note on Posting Timeline I will be posting by Friday of each week the session from the previous Sunday through Good Friday.\u00a0 Then we will take a week break so there will not be a post on week following &hellip; <a href=\"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/?p=761\">Continue reading <span class=\"meta-nav\">&rarr;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[10,5],"tags":[7,18,19],"class_list":["post-761","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-culture","category-scripture","tag-modern-scripture-scholarship","tag-religion-and-culture","tag-scripture-study"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/761","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=761"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/761\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":762,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/761\/revisions\/762"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=761"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=761"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/rjr.richardross.annaerossi.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=761"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}